Ronnie and Kristi

October 13th, 2009

Well, this post has been on hold for some time, but I think it’s time to clarify the situation as it stands. Ronnie has been struggling with some issues for the last few years and is not at this point ready to head to Italy in ministry. I hope that will change, and I am sure that the Lord will continue to use Ronnie and the gifts he has given him, even if it isn’t in Italy. But for now, Shelly and I will continue moving down the road on our own.

I’ll be removing the bio pages starting today.

All my best to both of them in dealing with the issues at hand and may God continue to provide everything they need in whatever capacity he chooses to use them.


Citizenship Updates

October 7th, 2009

Thanks for any of you that were praying. I can’t divulge anything at all right now, but it’s starting to look like we may have an opening and things will work out.

perhaps I spoke to soon….

September 28th, 2009

… I’ve been notified that tomorrow, tuesday 29 September, there will be a meeting to decide whether or not the lawyers can even pursue this with the adoption.

The question stands: Does the adoption sever any right I had to be considered italian, even though I was born with italian blood?

As it stands now, no one seems certain… and there don’t seem to be any cases previous to mine of people trying this.

In the European Convention on Nationality of 1997, chapter V, article 14, paragraph 1. Says:

“A State Party shall allow: children having different nationalities acquired automatically at birth to retain this nationalities”.

Paragraph 2 states: “The retention of the nationalities mentioned in paragraph 1 is subject to the relevant provisions of Article 7 of this convention


Article 7-Loss of Nationality ex lege

1. A State Party may not provide in its internal law for the loss of nationality ex lege …. Except in the following cases:

g. adoption of a child if the child acquires or possesses the foreign nationality of one or both of the adoptive parents.


So while Italy shall allow me to retain my Italian citizenship acquired automatically at birth, this is subject to article 7’s provision, which states that Italy may provide in its internal law for the loss of nationality if I was adopted and acquired the foreign nationality of the adoptive parents.


The main thrust here seems to be avoiding a child being “stateless”.



Adoption determines that the minor acquires the status of legitimate son and the citizenship of the adoptive parents.”

L’adozione determina per il minore l’acquisto dello status di figlio legittimo e della cittadinanza dei genitori adottivi.”


None of this clearly states that I either have or don’t have citizenship. All the sites on italian citizenship mention ways of losing one’s citizenship and they include either voluntary or involuntary means: voluntary being by renunciation and involuntary by several different means, but non mentions adoption directly. The closest is the European Union statement that Italy MAY provide for it as long as I acquire the foreign nationality of the adoptive parents, but the EU also says Italy MAY allow dual nationality. It could be the determiner is “Adoption stipulating/determining that the minor acquires the citizenship of the adoptive parents”.

However, it would seem to complicate matters that the adoption wasn’t done in Italy and therefore isn’t necessarily subjected to Italian law. You might think these things would carry over but they don’t automatically. For an adopted baby to be recognized as adopted to an Italian family, the adoption has to be recognized by a judicial act IN italy. So it’s possible that US law would come into play here and if US law allows heritage citizenship, then perhaps I retain it. But then Italy would still have some say here…..

Anyway, it all get’s tricky and I guess that’s why there are lawyers to sort through it all. But apparently it won’t be straightforward and I will likely have to have them argue the case in front of a judge in order to get this Ok’d. Then there is the matter of proving that I actually am the blood son even if the court decides an adoptee can be accepted as a blood relative.


They decide this tomorrow, so if you happen to remember, keep it in prayer.

Citizenship Process Update

September 24th, 2009

So the lawyers have determined… and this concerns documenting my link to my natural mother, that several layers of proof will be needed beyond the document trail I have now. I guess the good thing is that at least as it stands now, there is no legal impediment to an adopted out child having access to his birth citizenship. The only question left now is to conclusively demonstrate to the Italian legal system that I am actually the son of an Italian citizen. However, if that can be shown then i should be cleared to receive my Italian citizenship as well.

Plan A, and the version most likely to succeed, is to have the evidence done in Italy. The evidence they want is: Testimony from my mom: that I am her son, a DNA test, and possibly testimony from other family members in Italy that know both my mom and I and have seen us together.

However, this is basically out of the question as my mom can’t travel away from the house with the health condition my grandmother is in right now. As the full time caretaker, she is basically tied to the house.

So Plan B is to petition the Italian courts to  accept DNA tests done according to legal standards here and accept mom’s testimony before the Consulate General in Los Angeles. If they won’t, then I will be dead in the water until such a time as my mom would be free enough to travel to Italy…. basically when nonna passes on.

Plan C would be to have the link established here in California, but there is no precedent for this and they are not sure the California courts would want to hear such a case concerning parentage for purposes of obtaining a foreign citizenship.

So we are attempting to gauge how best to proceed- plans B or C, since plan A isn’t feasible at this point.

Citizenship Update

September 9th, 2009

The lawyers have determined that while they can file for a cause of action concerning my link to my birth mom, since it concerns me obtaining foreign citizenship, they may not want to hear it. So they want to do this in Italy instead. However, since the adoption process severs all ties between birth parents and the child, it may be an insuperable obstacle to linking us. I gave the OK for the lawyers there to look into the possibilites, but it may be closed to me. If so, I’ll basically be cut off from citizenship jure sanguinis. I could always move to Italy, live there the requisite amount of years legally and then apply for citizenship, but since getting there legally would be nearly impossible, I’m pretty certain that this would be the end of my hope to go and live there.

There are always going to be ways we can attempt to go around this, but I’ll have to leave that to the Lord and prayer. I don’t want to waste time trying to kick down doors the Lord has closed. So we’ll have to see what is happening with this case in the next few months.


consulate update

July 22nd, 2009

Back from the consulate where I found out that the comune will not have a copy of mom’s birth cert in italian. They don’t make them. Apparently the docs I already have in possession are all that is needed or indeed even available to prove that mom is an italian citizen. Passed the info on to the lawyers and was told no problems, If they need anything else then they’ll get it. Till then they want me to shut up and quit bugging them! No problems.

No Birth Cert at the Comune

July 20th, 2009

OK, just heard back from my family: they went to check for mom’s birth cert at the comune [town hall] and there wasn’t any record there. This happens because frequently the Consulate is WAYYYYY behind on sending the docs to the comune, so… i’m going to have to head back to the consulate here and find out what is happening.

Packet Received

July 10th, 2009

Got an email this evening that the law office received the docs and the retainer check and we are on our way. They still need to research a final decision on whether to file here or in Italy. Hopefully here since it will be cheaper, but the Lord’s will be done. They will let me know as soon as they know the correct course of action to take.

Finally starting the law procedure

July 9th, 2009

Got the word on July 1 that I could go ahead and send the retainer check and they would get started. I needed to make some copies of the necessary documents, minus mom’s italian birth cert, and send them with the check. Went to write a check and found we were actually OUT of checks for the first time in 20 years!!! So I went to the bank and ordered more with the new address. They just got here today and now I am finally sending the packet off to the lawyers.

Lawyers and decisions

June 30th, 2009

Emailed the lawyer to see about restarting the process. They are currently reviewing the case to see how best to proceed. I’m not sure why it would be any different than a year ago, but maybe something CHEAPER will come up. But anyway, keep it in prayer as they consider how best to proceed.

And…. I contacted my family in Italy, using my nephews facebook page of all things, to see if I could get a few copies of mom’s italian birth cert. Probably going to need that for the whole process anyway.